How do you know you're ready for marriage? How do you know if they are the right one and how do you build a healthy marriage?
These are all questions we are diving into in today's episode! The Moores are back with advice from their personal experience and lessons they have learned along the way. As the final part of our time with both Ramel and Shirley Moore, of Fortified Life Church, we are digging deep. You don't want to miss it!
If you missed part one, make sure to listen there first!
Let's get right into todays' part two of The Walters's Couch w/The Moores!
Visit our Podcast page to listen online, Google Podcast Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.
Show Notes:
Get Connected with Ramel & Shirley Moore.
Get Caught Up with Episode 10: From the Walters' Couch w/ the Moores - Pt1
The Walters's Couch w/The Moores - Transcription
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Shekinah: My question is now, how do you know when you're ready for marriage? You might be dating. You might even be engaged. How do you know this is the right person and it's time to get married. It's time to do this thing.
Ramel: That's a very, very, very good question.
Shekinah: Thank you.
Shirley: The wrong question to ask us. We don't know.
Ramel: I think it's important to have a relationship with God. And I, you know, I don't want to over-spiritualize it, but it is a covenant, right? We're not talking about marriage; we're talking about a covenant. We're talking about something that is your you're committing to the kingdom. You're committing to God. Right. And I think that it's important. And to know if you're not ready to commit to your relationship with God, then you're probably not ready to commit to your relationship with the person or that you're trying to get married to. So I think that one of the ways to know that you're ready is what is your relationship looks like with God, right?
What is, what is your, what is your time that you spend with God? Because again, getting married is cool. Staying married is everything. Right? And no one stays married without God. Right. I just think that's so important. Or let me, let me rephrase that. No one stays married the right way without God. So I just think that's super important. So I just think that for me, my answer would be, you know, you're ready when your relationship with God is getting stronger. And, and you have a such, you have such a good relationship that he is letting you know when you're ready.
Shirley: I will. I, you know, I keep hearing the word hesitancy, and I will just say that if you're being hesitant, you need to be close to God too, because God may be telling you, this is not the person you need to abort this mission.
Right. And so abort. Alt, control, delete. Do you know what I mean? Like, get out. Jump ship. Right. And I think a lot of times, people will, for fear of losing out, they will stay in relationships that God hasn't called them to. And so they won't take the next step because they know it's not the right step, but they also aren't brave enough to let go.
And so, you know, I just feel like the holy spirit is saying, be bold and courageous, right? Like trust in me. Like I have what's best for you. I'm never going to put you in a situation where you're going to fail. And so if you let go, I'm going to give you the right piece. This is just not the right piece/peace. Piece as in material thing and peace, as in godly peace like tranquility.
Ramel: Yeah. Being able to hear from God is important. You know, I just think that's so important to know what direction you're going in. And not only that but how to get there and when to go and all that good stuff. So I think being able to hear from God, and obviously, that comes with a relationship that comes with spending time with God.
So I think that again, you know, in your, in your process of spending time with God and getting close to God, I think those answers will be revealed to you. And I think that you know, having that peace that surpasses all understanding, and again, it's not about the peace that you get from that person, it's about the peace that you get from God about that person.
Right? Right. Because if God's, if God has given you peace about that person, he's also going to give you everything else that goes along with it to keep that person and to be with that person. So again, I think it's really, really important to just measure those things to see when you're ready.
Shirley: I'll also add that, like, if you're not ready, cause you can't afford a wedding, then you're not ready to be married, period. Because a couple of that struggles together, stays together. The struggle is fruitful. The struggle is always fruitful. Couples that learn how to fight in the battle learn how to go into the room and fight with God, right? Like claim their promise and struggle together, like, you know, you guys know our story, we didn't know how to manage money.
Shoot. We were a hot mess. Like, can't nobody tell us differently because we've been in the fricking struggle. There was a time I still, the other day I was just praising God. And I started to cry because I remember there was a day when all I had in the house, my husband, was at a tournament, a basketball tournament.
And he was gone for the weekend, and all I had was rice, and I seasoned the rice and gave my son just rice for lunch. Cause I had nothing else to feed him. Like those are the moments like you, you don't want, you want to save up for a wedding. Do you know how ridiculous that is? That is when you could just jump in this and figure this out and learn how to save up together and build that foundation that no one can come in and shake?
Yeah. Nah, if you're saving for a wedding, if you're holding out, you're not ready. Cause you, you can't have a wedding, you're not ready for marriage.
Ramel: And here's the deal. You can have a marriage without a wedding. So the fact that the matter that you can have a marriage without a wedding
Shirley: Just to be clear, we do believe in marriage; we're talking about the wedding event, the big celebration, the party, right?
Shekinah: Like it's a party.
Shirley: Yeah. We do believe that you need to make a covenant before God. Right. But a pastor can cost you 50 bucks. And then the price of the, our pastor was cool enough not to charge us. And we paid $26 for the marriage license.
Shekinah: That's how much we paid.
Shirley: Yeah. So I mean, that's the cost of it. And then. From there, you start building together. Right. And like what a beautiful, like, you can like, you know, not that you have to be us. Right. But. God gave us wisdom. Cause we were like on our ten-year anniversary. God knew even back then it would take us at least 10 years to figure this out. We kept saying what, you know, for 10 years, we're going to celebrate. We're going to have a wedding for 10 years. And, and it happened.
Ramel: I think we said 10 years because 10 is a number.
Shirley: Yeah, I know. I was being funny. You're gonna kill my fun?
Ramel: I was like, we said ten because it was a number.
It was a good anniversary.
Shekinah: Exactly. It was deep, Pastor Mel.
Ramel: Okay.
Shirley: Even in my jokes, I'm deep.
Shekinah: I love it. So, okay. So if you're waiting, it's one of the reasons you're not getting married right now, or you're prolonging or hesitating towards marriage is because of the wedding itself. Perhaps you're not ready to get married. Now, what if it's because people are saying like, well, we need to make sure we date for three years or maybe we need to live together before we get.
Shirley: You ain't ready. So here's the thing, here's the thing. People and this is, you know, this, this often gets me up, especially about our current culture. Like we have this thing of like having vision boards and five-year plans and two-year plans, you know what I mean? Like we're in this, and I love those things too. Right? Like, those are the things that like make me thrive. But I think marriage isn't a business. Like you can't plan this thing, no matter what three-year plan you put on the, on the board, right. You can put a six-month plan. That thing ain't gonna go your way.
It's not. Right. So like, you can sit here, and you can set all these timelines and have all these goals, but you know, the Bible tells us many are the plans of a man. You can set all the plans you want.
I said,
Shekinah: ...but it's God's purpose that prevails.
Ramel: Many are the plans of a man God's purpose will prevail.
Shirley: Do you want the prevailing purpose of God, or do you want your plans? I'll take the prevailing purpose.
Ramel: And I agree with everything my wife said, but I think there are occasions in our cases where you need to go sit down and get to know that person and really, really take your time and hear from God. And don't jump into no marriage if you're not ready. I truly believe that. Because the fact of the matter is this, you can have the right person in the wrong season and mess everything up just because you moved outside of the will of God. And that's only because of timing. So the thing should be, you know, how do I get, how do I get closer to God? So I can know, not only is this the right person? But am I in the right timing? Am I in my right season? You know, is God still working on me to be what he needs me to be. So I could be for her what she needs me to be, you know? So just, you know, just thinking about that too, that's very, very, very important.
Shirley: I think the, just to be clear, I think that distinction is setting up plans and timelines that you're abiding by, right? Like, no, we're going to be together. We're going to date for three years, right?
Like, like get on and do that. You're not even like seeking God, like, go talk to God. Do you know what I mean? Like, go like have a conversation with God. You know, our marriage scripture is that seek first the kingdom of God and all His righteousness, and all these things will be added onto you. Isn't it interesting? We started this conversation by saying it took us 12 years to figure out we should be in business together. And our scripture is to seek first the kingdom of God. So anyway,
Shekinah: Oh, the eyes that you're giving her right now.
Shirley: I have so much revelation this conversation, but you know, in everything in your marriage, you need to seek God like God; the Bible didn't talk about a man and a woman being together. And it just being done like, you're going to need God. Right. And like the best thing to do is inquire of him while he could still be found, which is the right now, not the later on.
Ramel: I think it's so funny how people will seek God. I think people, it's so funny. People will seek God for a spouse, seek God to get married. And then, and then lose God once they get married, stop seeking him. So I think, I just think it's, I just think it's so funny. Like you sought him to get, to find a spouse, you sought him to get married, but then when y'all got married, you stopped seeking him for what, for what to do in a marriage. And here's the key to it again, it's just seeking God. One of the t-shirts that I designed it's called seeker, and one of the things I'm trying to be for the rest of my life is a seeker.
I just always want to be in his face. What you're doing, what do you want me to do? How do you want me to do it? I just want to seek. And I just want to ask God and talk to him all the time about what he needs me to do and how he needs me to do it. And I want to just be a seeker. Right. And I think when in that process of being a seeker, a lot of the things that we get stuck on, we don't get stuck on if we're continually seeking God.
Here's what's so awesome about being a seeker. Even when you feel lost, you're really not because in seeking, you're in a place that God wants you to be. So even when you feel lost, you're really not because you're actually in a place of seeking, and that's exactly where God wants you to be. My God. So just, just being in that place of being a seeker is being everywhere God wants you to be. And I just, I just think that's so important to know, like even like, as couples, right? It's important for me to see my wife praying. It's important. That's an important thing. It's important for me, too, for my wife to see me praying and to see me seeking God. So she knows. Okay, he's seeking God. It's going to be hard-pressed for him to be in the wrong place. It's going to be very difficult for him to be in the wrong place. Yeah. He spent time with God this morning, you know, he, he was with his father this morning, so, you know yeah. So I think, I just think that super important.
Shekinah: And I liked that. I think about even the 1140 story. And, you know, we talk a lot about how you need to get out of the wilderness and to the promised land. But even as the people were so-called lost in the wilderness, God was right there with them the entire time. And they were right there where he needed them to be where he wanted them to be in that moment and where they needed to be in that moment.
So yeah, even in that feeling lost, and I feel like even in marriage, sometimes it can feel like that Lord Jesus, let's not turn this into a marriage counseling session, but it can really feel like that could feel very isolating, or you could feel lost for a while where you're sort of just like, what are we doing here? Because nothing prepares you for marriage. Like nothing. You can't ever get ready for marriage, but you don't know what you're about to experience until you're in it and you're experiencing it. And I know we talked about this in premarital counseling, but like, until you're in it, you don't even really know what it means to not know what it is until you're in it.
Shirley: Yeah. You know you go to premarital counseling, you seek advice, you're talking to people, then you get in. You're like, all that advice. None of that applies right now. Right, like it's so easy to get caught up. We were talking about that in Bible Study today and how even our frustrations are distractions from the enemy. Right? Like we, we have, we might have the wisdom. We might have the knowledge, but we're so frustrated. It's hard for us to hear. It's hard for us to see. It's hard for us to get out of our own way. And That's why we believe, I mean, premarital counseling is important, but we believe that it is that marriage counseling that's important, right? Like, it's that in the house? Oh, shoot. We're face-to-face, right. We need people to help us. It's that that really matters that premarital counseling man, that's like an idealistic conversation. Because none of that stuff applies when you get in the house.
Ramel: Different experience.
Shirley: Yeah. You'd be like, who's this person, but we sat on, we sat in my premarital counseling for hours. What's happened here?
Shekinah: And you said this, you said you were going to take the trash out. I don't remember saying that. Well, I wrote it down in my notes on my iPad. But it's real, though. It can be the smallest things that become frustrating and become the distraction and keep you away from pursuing purpose with your partner, which is a different, difficult thing. I think to learn how to do also as evidenced by y'all's 12 years of figuring out how to bring this all together and pursue it together.
So I don't know, I feel a little comforted that cause a year when I'm like, we should be pursuing the same purpose. All the time, we should know how to do this, but like, it is really encouraging to hear that other people are just figuring it out a decade and some in.
Justin: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Like you can't rush the process, the process and trying to understand you for one and understanding myself and how we can intertwine and work with each other, you know, but there are some things I'm working through personally, too.
Right. So I think, you know, it's kind of taking a step back and being like, all right, how can we go about this together? And making sure that we can enter it at the right time and making sure that we can support each other through those things.
Shirley: I think the first year of marriage, I'm sorry, babe, the first year of marriage, your purpose is to pursue purpose together.
However, it's not external purposes, internal purpose. Right? And like, that's what we say. Like, keep the focus in. We say that all the time in marriage counseling, and it's because, like at the beginning, y'all need to figure y'all selves out. Like you can go out and launch a bunch of purposes out there, have no purpose inside.
So just focus inward, keep that purpose-driven, that purpose seeking that, that soul searching, keep that inward.
Ramel: What's your marriage identity? What's your couple's identity, right? What's that identity? I think one of the things that people don't understand about marriage is its on-the-job training.
Shirley: Yeah. About to get an MBA in this relationship.
Shekinah: It ain't no MBA. This is like five PhD
Yup.
Ramel: On the job training. And honestly, there's no better teacher than on-the-job training. Like you're not gonna, you're not gonna learn more by being out by watching somebody else's marriage. You're not gonna; it is on-the-job training. And Justin said it so perfectly. You're trying to figure out each other while trying to figure out yourself, all at the same time.
And if you think you got it together enough that you ain't got to figure yourself out, you already in trouble.
Shirley: And if you think about it, like, like for us, right, for us, as we both lived by ourselves. Like we didn't leave our parents' house to marry each other. So we had lived; I had had my own apartment for years before he moved in.
Like I had, he had been on his own for years. Right. Like we had like lived our lives. So then like find a way to merge these two things and then to, to talk, not toggle, but to, to, to struggle with the idealistic point of views that you had in the expectations that you were setting on this relationship, that you were expecting, this thing too, to bring to fruition for yourself. That is like, you are face-to-face with all your dreams, all your hopes, as a woman, right?
Oh, your hopes for your marriage. All these things that you're expecting, you're face to face with this person, that was so amazing when you were dating, and now you're like, you're not going to be better. We're not going to get married. You're not going to start speaking and singing and dancing and prancing; it's not like a walk in LaLa Land?
Ramel: Here's what's so funny. Right? You get married, and you expect something of your partner that, that they weren't before you got married.
Shirley: Not only that, It's a lot of the time, it's expectations you don't even share with that person. They're just like internal expectations of like this like I, I tell people all this, this all the time, like I thought I was going to be a stay-at-home mom. Like you heard at the beginning, all the stuff I do. Could you imagine me being a stay-at-home mom, and I like in my head, I thought that's what I was supposed to do with my life. Right. There are so many societal pressures and expectations that get put on us. And then there are these fantasies that we grow and develop and nurture in our minds that when we come to marriage, we have to confront because if not, we lived the first few years of marriage fully disappointed.
Shekinah: Yeah. I remember one of our first marriage counseling sessions with y'all once we moved here to Minneapolis, and I think it was Pastor Mel saying to me, like, you're not going to be the perfect wife. Just go ahead and let that go. Because I think at that time I was like, I've got to cook, I've got to clean, I've got to take care of the dog. I've got to do my actual work. I've got to run this ministry. And like, there were just so many pieces and so much pressure I was putting on myself that I had to learn to have grace with myself and then let go of those fantasy ideas that I had about who I would be as a wife. And I had to just kind of take a step back and learn who I was as a wife. And I'm still doing that, but, you know, just kind of letting go. And that also took some like, sort of grieving who I thought I would be this identity I had made up in my head. But it's a real process that you go through early on in marriage, for sure.
Ramel: You know, it's so funny how we decide that we're going to be the perfect spouse, although we've never been a spouse. You don't even know what; you don't even know what you're talking about. And here is what's crazy. A long time ago, when we first got married, I was trying to be the perfect husband, and you know what God told me, he said, don't be the perfect husband, be the perfect piece of clay.
And I just went when he, it set me free. It literally, it literally gave me freedom just to be on the wheel. And let him mold me into what he wants me to be, and it'll be perfect for her. And that's really what it's all about. Right? It's just being the perfect piece of clay within a marriage. And not only that, you're not going to have a perfect marriage, but make sure your marriage is a perfect piece of clay.
Keep your marriage on the wheel. Don't just keep yourself on the wheel; keep your marriage on the wheel. Right. And what we do is this, we get frustrated at our spouses, and we take them off the wheel, and we try to mold them into what we want them to be. And God told me you are trying to mold my, my woman, into what her to be for you.
Shirley: You're coming into my business, telling my people to want to do
Ramel: Yo, crazy. Yo, that's exactly what he said to me. He said, put her back on the wheel and mind your business. That's what he said to me. Put her back on the wheel and mind your business because here's the deal. My job is to pray. My job is not to shape her. What have I bought somebody into this world? When have I done that?
And created a human being by myself whenever I had done that? So I just gotta be mindful of that. And I think people gotta be,
Shirley: We did make Jordan just so you know.
Shekinah: But not by yourself.
Ramel: You didn't do it by yourself. And I didn't; I didn't do it by myself. Alright. So you gotta, you gotta be real quick to catch your joke.
Shirley: Thank you.
Justin: Oh, that's awesome that you guys are saying that because you know Shekinah and me when we went back to Florida for Thanksgiving. We met with one of her friends and was just talking about marriage and, you know, just through the conversations, one of the things we started talking about is like, when you become married, it's like, you're reborn again. You know, it's like, in a way, you're coming up. I'm no longer Justin, the single Justin. Shekinah is no longer the single Shekinah; we are Shekinah and Justin Walters, you know, and that's a whole new person. That's a whole life. On a whole new way of thinking, just a whole new way of moving and adjusting to life.
So it was like, you're not, you're just, you're not the same person. You will never be the same person, you're completely different, and you have to understand that and be willing to go through the journey of being different and understand that that will not be perfect. And, you know, and that will, sometimes it will hurt, you know, not physically, but mentally and emotionally, you know, and it'll be ups and downs, but like, you know, that's how greatness is formed.
Yeah. You know, and we talk about, I think on the first from the Walters' couch episode, we talked about how it takes people years to find their own individual identity, decades to find your own individual identity and coming into marriage and thinking you're going to find your identity immediately on the day you get married. It's just so unrealistic, but I don't even think people recognize that it is a whole new identity, and it's not just you by yourself. That's changing. It's you as a unit that is becoming a family.
Shirley: I struggled with that. When my son was born, I struggled with that because here I was, trying to be a stay-at-home mom.
Right. And so we were a year, a couple of months into our marriage when our son was born, and we, I mean, You know, I call it postpartum depression. Cause I literally, I think I cried the first nine months. I could not believe what my life was becoming. And I remember I was sitting in the living room with Jordan one morning, and we were watching TD Jakes Church on TV and And TD Jakes preached on the depression.
And he talked about how depression is you holding onto the past and not letting it go. And it doesn't allow you to be in the present. And I realized, I realized that I was hanging on to who I was, and I wasn't enjoying where I was. Right. And we do that. I did that with, you know, when my son was born, but I think we do that even in our marriages, you see people like, oh, he's still goes clubbing, or she still does this, or she still does that because there's like this need to preserve what existed rather than allowing yourself to mold and to be molded and evolve into what is, what is going to exist or what needs to exist. And that the greatest thing that is really easy for us to miss is that we have a purpose. You know, God, if we're still breathing, we have a purpose, which means there's still destiny that God is trying to pull out of us and to have us walk into.
And if we continue to hold onto the past, we will never be able to walk to the future, to the destiny that he has created for us.
Ramel: Amen. Our minds are, so our minds are so warped and so funny because we try to be the perfect spouse, but we'll never be the perfect person. So like there are no perfect people.
So why would you ever think that you could be a perfect spouse when you're not even a perfect person or you'll never be a perfect person? And I just think that it's super important again to renew your mind. You know, renew your mind, change those old ideas and those old unlearn, some things, right.
Justin talked about earlier how you didn't have an example, or people don't have an example of what marriage should look like or anything like that. Even if you did have an example is an example, you know, like, is it, is it you, is it your marriage? Are you the same as that man? And is that woman the same as the woman you're marrying?
No. So even that example is not a good idea, right? And not only that, but in their marriage, you don't know what that example really is. Right? You don't know what's behind those closed doors. So just like the ideas that we come up with in our mind, it is just so off, and learning, reading, unlearning is so important, especially when you get into a marriage.
Shekinah: That's powerful. Well, yeah, this has been a really good conversation. I know we could go on, but I want to be able to allow you all to sort of giving any concluding thoughts, anything that's kind of burning that you want to share with our listeners, or even one final piece of relationship advice if y'all have any more because y'all have been dropping gems the entire time.
Shirley: Was it before we got married. I don't know if it was before we got married. Cause you know that the time span is really short. When we got married, I was to love my husband for how God saw him. Right. Like I was like, you can never do anything that that's going to make me love you less.
And I think that when you look at your spouse in that way, when you decide I'm going to love you unconditionally, regardless of your faults, regardless of your shortcomings, regardless of what happens in this lifetime, you give yourself the opportunity to ride the waves, and you have to force God's hand into your marriage because you're going to need him to be able to walk that out.
So make a commitment that's beyond you so that you have to walk it out with God.
Ramel: That's good. I would say if I had to say anything, I would say submit one to another. But more importantly, submit unto Holy Spirit, submit to God, for your marriage to be what your marriage is supposed to be and, and, and understand this, your marriage is supposed to be a seed.
It's really something; it's really ministry, right? It's really ministry, and it's really worship. And it's something that wants you to allow him to build through you guys. But more importantly, he wants you. He wants to build it so that you guys can be a representation of the kingdom. You are not meant to just be married, just to be married.
You're meant to be married because marriage is ministry. You're supposed to be together, work together, do things together and shine together. Your light is supposed to be out there. And you're supposed to show the representation of what God deemed and wanted to present to the world of what it looks like.
Right? He says, husbands love your wives, as Christ loves the church, he's given us an identity. He's given us an idea of what this is supposed to look like. And the fact of the matter is this. We have to understand that marriage is a seed that needs to be planted. And the reason why the divorce rates are so high and all these different things is because we, we keep taking that, we keep thinking marriage is something other than a seed, and we're not planting it by the, by the rivers of water. And we're not planting it in the right places, and we're allowing it to get stolen and to get routed up. But it's supposed to be a seed that is planted by the rivers of water so that we can sprout and grow with fruit.
If your marriage doesn't have fruit. Geez, Louise.
Shirley: Don't be the fig tree.
Ramel: Yeah. So just understand that marriage is a seed that's supposed to produce fruit. And it's not, it's not fruit for you to eat, it's fruit for the world to eat.
Justin: That's good. Yeah. Yeah, I guess what I have to say, I would say, yeah, as Shirley and Mel said in the beginning, you know, have that couple that you can go to that has fruit in their marriage, and they can guide you and get you through those tough times, those tough conversations. And that's what me and Shekinah do; we seek them and talk to them when we have those in those moments, good or bad, you know, and they, they help us through that. Yeah. Just have somebody in your corner.
Shekinah: Yeah. Well, this, I think, has been a really great conversation again from the Walters' Couch, virtually with our Mel and Shirley Moore with a guest appearance by Jordan. But it's been really good talking to y'all, you know, we love to, all the time, so we appreciate you making the time for The Truths and Promises podcast and for being a part of this.
And we look forward to the time where we get to talk, see you, each of you one-on-one, and dig a little deeper into what your 1140 stories are. Thanks again.
Oh, and before we go, let the people know how they can get in touch with you. Stay connected with you.
Ramel: First of all, we just want to say thank you for having us. We love you guys. And we're not just saying that just to say it. We actually really real deal love you guys. And we're super proud of you guys. We believe in your union. We pray for your union, and we know that you guys are going to be not only is your marriage going to be a seed, but you guys will become come fruit.
You guys will become fruit for the world. So thank you again for having us. And where are you going to find this, babe? Talk to 'em. So you can find Ramel @CoachMelMoore on all social media Instagram coach @CoachMelMoore, and I am @ShirleyKnowsMoore. Our last name, Moore, M O O R E on Instagram.
And you can always email us. You can shout us out at hello@shirleyxmoore.com or info@coachmelmoore.com. Also, if you want to check us out on Fortified Life Church, you can tune in on Sundays. My wife is talking about herself; God wants us to talk about the church. I told you, she is being worked on as we speak; she's still on the wheel.
Shirley: So you can catch our we're live at 9:30 in the morning, Eastern Standard Time, on Facebook.
And then we upload during the week onto YouTube. So feel free to catch us there. Or you can just find us at, We Are Fortified on Facebook and Instagram.
Shekinah: Beautiful. I will include all this, and our show notes on our blogs sell. You'll get, make sure you get the right spelling of the Moore's last name but also find the information for Fortified Life Church.
Shirley: Awesome. Thanks for having us guys. We love you so much.
Shekinah: Love y'all too. Thanks for being apart.
Ramel: Peace.
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